Forum >> The Ovidius Challenge

Thanks Jacee, I hope I didn't come across the wrong way.  I like your posts and appreciate your contributions to the forum here.  I don't know if you've ever had a private dialogue with Silvertrader, but from my experiences, of course he's not perfect, but he seems to be a genuine and generous person.  I think that is where alot of my personal feelings of trust and faith come from and hope you are aware of it too.  I look forward to your new thread and hope maybe some good ideas will come out of it.

 I have been traveling for the last couple of days and saw the forum topic yesterday, just prior to checking out of a hotel.  I am away from home until November 22, but if the offer to manage my account via Saxon according to the terms that Silvertrader stated, is still available when I return, I would like to do so.  I'm not set up to open a new account while on the road.  Perhaps Silvertrader can let me/us know if that is OK and what size of an account needs to be opened.  The only immediate thing i can do is give access to my current account, and allow exclusive trading by Silvertrader, although that account does not trade metals.

Thanks for the opportunity.

Ovidius

Jaycee and others.  Here is a quote from Silvertrader's longer post in "Starting over and how to proceed" which was originally started by Ovidius... (Currently located at page 2 of the forum topics).

" For the others, who joined in a bad time and had no guidelines how to protect themselves or limit their losses, I'm trying to offer a compensation, as I think it is appropriate. First of all, any of those can get a 12-month complimentary stratpro subscription, all they need to do is just send an e-mail to info@sureforexsignals.com, stating that they intend to take the offer and will cancel future recurring billings. I'll override the system manually and assign a subscription to those accounts. However, the signup date will be checked in every case, so those who signed up prior to Aug.01. should not apply at all.  "

Jaycee, in a post, maybe the same one with the Midas offer, or maybe one just prior posted by Silvertrader, the offer was made to anyone who started around the September.  It was not exclusive to Ovidius...  I will try to ferret it out since maybe some of you missed it.

The Ovidius challenge can't be given to everyone here so I guess it'd make sense to try to only offer it to the guy it was named after.  Okay seriously, maybe you'll consider all of this just a marketing ploy, but the results are important to all of us nonetheless.  I really don't care what it is, as long as it means the system is doing it's job and we have faith in the potential to make money.  It serves a real purpose to set an example that could renew faith to people who otherwise may need it.  You and I, for example- maybe we'd like to see some honest results that give some evidence that everything is ok here.  Maybe future forum visitors need to see it too.  I don't know where everyone's mind stands, but I can get a pretty good idea from the recent posts here that some action is needed.  The fact that if you looked at the situation through positive eyes, might let you see it my way.  Those of us who did lose some of our own capital, not just past profits have been offered some type of compensation that was not part of the original deal, and likely would not be offered by another signal provider.  Silvertrader has allowed us the right to post anything we want in here so far, but I think it's also fair that he is allowing himself a way to prove his other integrity through whatever means he has in here as well.

I don't want to "teach him a lesson" that the only way he can ever have his business is to delete posts and not bother trying to be a nice guy because it will just backfire on him.  Maybe the scam business model is so prevalent because it's just easier since the subscribers will never have the right mindset?  There are some things that really separate this place from others, and I think that is why I still have my faith that things will work out.

I'm a cutomer here, like you, I respect your inputs and sympathize completely with your mindset as I also started trading live around the same time.  But I have a question for you...  How would you propose that Silvertrader makes things right -what would you do?  Surely you are still looking for some way to move forward yourself, otherwise you would not also be here still, correct?  I doubt you are just here because you like to continually criticise the site and never allow it to have any future benefit for you.  So if that's the case, then how would we proceed in your mind? 

It amazes me how people need to go off at a tangent and discuss the whole system pros and cons , ins and outs, does and donts etc etc   .....   all of which has been discussed at length elsewhere previous on the forum at the time it was relevant    ....   rather than simply discuss the issue within the thread.

An offer / challenge has been made by Silvertrader to Ovidius, we await his reply. Yes clearly the offer has been made to try and regain subscribers confidence and re establish Silvertraders standing. A simple marketing ploy

 But in making that offer Silvertrader revealed in this public forum he had given Ovidius a 12 months complementary free subscription   ...    nothing to do with the Midas complementary offer made here previously on the forum as generous as that may have been, athough that was again a marketing ploy to hopefully get people to invest in Midas 

I am sure we are not alone but both Skelts and myself are not entirely happy with a situation where one subscriber is being treated differently and recieving benefits others in the same situation are not and have decided to say so

Funny how everyone's mind works different.  I saw Silvertrader's offers to newer members for a comp. subscription and a guaranteed profit in Midas as something generous considering there was no prior guarantee to do so if things went bad.  I see the Ovidius challenge as a way to boost confidence for everyone, which is what we all need right now.  The guy is going to put his money where his mouth is right here in a public forum for all of us to witness.  I doubt it is just for Ovidius' benefit.  The thing is, he needs to gain everyone's confidence right now, and who better to pick out than the most critical member voicing his opinions here.  But if you were in Silvertrader's shoes, wouldn't you think that was an innovative way to try to restore some faith, and be pretty shocked that no matter what you said - it would be turned into something else negative? 

Nobody forced anyone to trade the system here at gunpoint or the money management, it was all our own choice.  Silvertrader made some mistakes by assuming we had more knowledge, or worst case scenario he failed to provide rules that would cover a month like September becasue maybe he didn't know any better either, but in fairness,  it was a first time experience for him too with this system.  Mistakes were made, and there is really nothing else that can be done except try to pick up the pieces and learn from the experience.  Silvertrader is usually first to say NOT to trade with money you cannot afford to lose, so that should at least release him of some of the unknown liabilities such as this.  I think the reason everyone is so upset here that hasn't been around for very long, is that they put a much larger amount of money into their trading account without even a reasonable personal track record and the experience with this system to deal with it...  Cheekypete happened to demo for a good many months first, his experience by demoing taught him to adjust his lot size accordingly-very smart.  The free trial here definitely explains to trade the signals on demo for a while first- before placing trades in real money in the account.  Why?  This is EXACTLY why.  Now I'm not trying to belittle anyone, I am merely trying to bring up the point that anyone completely wiped out and upset, has also made mistakes.  It probably took mistakes from both sides to end up in a real mess that would have you sad and complaining here everyday that your whole account was wiped out in a month.  The only thing we can do, is all learn from these mistakes and move forward for the better.

To anyone that says they lost their entire account in September, I want to ask- what were you thinking after the account was down 50% in a short amount of time?  Did it cross your mind that it happened so fast that maybe the lot sizing was too aggressive?  Or did you shrug it off thinking it might be normal for the system?  If you shrugged it off, it's probably because you lacked the experience with the system to realize something was wrong, so instead of lowering the lot sizes, you just keep adding positions at the same big sizes in hopes that your account would bounce back quicker by doing so- and that never came.  The things I just mentioned are what you would do if you did not have reasonable experience in trading the system here for a while on demo as explicitly instructed.  How do I know?  Because I was one of those people myself.  I had some motivations in my life that made me damned anyway, so it was worth the shot.  I am sure everyone has their own set of excuses.  The only difference, is that I accepted the risks when I did it, I knew it was not the prudent thing to do, and I take the ultimate responsibility for the outcome.  Not in a million years did I think Silvertrader would offer any way to try to make amends afterward, so anything he does offer- makes him a pretty good guy with me.  My biggest fears were that he was going to be a scam artist.  I think it's pretty fair to say that he is not, and I would think anyone here as a member would at least agree with me on that.  I know there was a big blow to some of the newer members here, and the sad truth is we were just unlucky enough to start on a bad month.  What really makes it a killer is if you made the personal choice to put the bulk of your money in all at once, without a demo period to feel out the right way to follow the system...  What's done is done, and all we can do is move forward.  I only ask that everyone also takes their own personal share of the blame if they want to dish it out on Silvertrader -to be completely fair. 

One final note: This whole drawdown period is really due to only one single thing- the effects of the quantitative easing program in the US.  It has never happened before, and I don't think anyone could have planned a trading system specifically around it. The only failsafe that could've helped is proper money management.  Think about it-  none of these USD pairs would have extended like this for no reason.  It doesn't invalidate the system here forever, it only means that one single ongoing event in the news has caused 1 batch of repeating trading signals to be false.  There was also a good chance that it was going to be nothing more than a rumor, and the dollar pairs would have moved so far in our favor that we would be just as rich as we are now hurt.  We didn't know if it would really happen or not, so the smartest thing was to stick with a system that relied on technical trading, which has made pips every single month in it's past -(absent qe2). 

We were warned, even given a free month explicitly for the sake to demo so we could learn in all fairness without even having to pay for the services without profit.  All I am saying is that if you took the month on demo, you would have probably figured for yourself what the proper money management rules would and wouldn't be for you like Cheekypete.  If your demo month was like September, you definitely would have learned to scale back if your account started diminishing significantly.  If it was a good month, then you would have realized something was wrong in September, and then made changes accordingly.  If you had the demo experience and still kept trading big anyway in the face of a depleting account, then it was your own fear and greed.  Any of these ways, you'll have to take some responsibility for your account failure.  Whatever the case, please- lets all grow from our mistakes and stop placing blame on anyone without also considering our own contributions to the problem.  Nothing constructive is coming out of it, no personal advancement, and honestly -I'd prefer that we spend our efforts in improving the system here and work towards becoming profitable again.
 

Of course I agree about extensive demo testing, but at the end of the day we could have demo tested for the 8 or so months since Sure went public with all the winning months but if we were still unlucky enough to go live in August of this year the outcome would be completely the same. You have to go live at some point or why bother subscribing

Losses are all part of this buisness, and everyone should expect them regardless of the past performance. Under normal trading % loss expectations and risk a losing first or second month would not have been such a major event, but to lose your entire account in the first ' session ' because you did nothing more than follow the guidlines as presented by the system developers is clearly a system failure and is hard to swallow

As regards to private emails on the subject I would have gladly done so at the time the original offer of compensation was made had it been the offer given to Ovidius, but it was something completely different offered on this forum and not of interest to me so I did not follow it up.

As of now it is Silvertrader that has brought this into the public forum

Cheekypete2

You are obviously missing the whole point. We all subscribed under the same terms and conditions so should we not  therefore all recieve the same service and be treated equaly. Obviously some are more equal than others

I suspect you have been here for a longer period than me and others and have therefore enjoyed the benefit of some profitable months to offset the Aug / Sept losses. I and others have not, we suffered account whipeout by following the guidelines on position sizing provided to us and discussed at length on this forum   ....    you may think that is something to shrug off and LOL about, those of us that suffered it do not

Hmm, I thought the compensation offer was for subscribers to join your new Midas venture with a guaranteed return, ( of no interest to me ), but seems it has changed

So the senario now seems to be  ...  join in August, go live without demo ( against all your advise ), lose your money   ....   get 12 months free membership compensation

Or join in July ( me ), demo for a month ( as advised ), go live in August, lose your money   ....   get nothing

I am sure I can not be the only one in this situation   ...    where is the justic and equality in this ?